Declining Western Standards

Garfield Samuels (: 00:10

Gary, another day, another discussion, how's everything? Great, Dave. It's absolutely going wonderful. The different standards across the world, and I think it's not just only Western society, but they've been observed to be declining standards, and we're talking about in various facets of life. Is that your observation as well?

I think standards have been declining in Western society for 20 or 30 years and I think we see that evident in the culture across music, film, television, just generally the way people dress. So I think we're seeing it everywhere and it'll be interesting. I can see a turn back coming at some point as to when it starts. I'm not exactly sure, but yeah, I think things have changed dramatically.

Is it really though a decline in culture or is it a change, a shift based on progression of humanity that every so often you do have changes in the way in which younger generations think, the way they act, the way they consume, what they like? Well certainly there's going to be a subjective nature as to what you define as

progress and change and what you define as a decline. it's, you know, every generation we get a bit older and we become grumpy old people. Back in my day and the young people today, what are they thinking? I don't think it's quite that. And for example, it's not where, let's take music. It's not one where

You know, my, my grandmother loved opera and sort of big band stuff. it's like, this music today is just noise and they're just making noise. And I don't know why they dress like that. It's not that sort of thing that the style itself or the genre change. I think it's more than if you, certainly not all music, but if you, listen to a lot of the music today, there's a lack of story to it or the story that's within it is, is about.

Garfield Samuels (: 02:31

You know, getting sex, getting money, what I have, look at me, look at me, look at me. So it's, it's not so much that someone can tell a story, you know, in three or four minutes about who they love or an experience they had or the way it was growing up. So it's that sort of thing. Why talk about declining standards or where you used to see if, if anyone's seen, well, everyone's seen old pictures from a hundred years ago, the way.

someone would dress, say a sporting event. So whatever sporting event you're thinking of, you could be a baseball fan, it could be cricket back in the day, but you'd see people and saw the Sunday best. we've been wearing petticoats and all that. Yeah. I'm, well, I'm not advocating return to the over the top, but there was, there was an element of a standard within that. for example, yeah, I don't want, you know, all the girls out there wear your long skirt and your petticoat.

n't mean that I want to see a: 1940

You see people come out today in high end restaurants and the double sleeve tattoos and reaching across the table to serve you food. Now I'm not picking on those that want tattoos. Knock yourself out. That's one of the things that I would put in the category of societies. It's a change, but it's not a standard drop. What I define as the standard drop is the change is that you have your right going double sleeve tattoo where in my day that meant that you're a member of the.

The banditos, the things, the hells angels. Yeah. You're part of an outlaw motorcycle gang or you might've been Navy if you had the girl on the arm that used to flex and the girl, the girl would dance or something crazy. so that, that's the sort of thing I'd say that an argument could be made from someone younger saying, Dave, you're getting old. These things are, these things today, grumpy old man.

Garfield Samuels (: 04:45

so I would suggest that, but the standard is that when you're at work at that high end restaurant, that you've got a long sleeve shirt to cover up the tattoos. So you're setting a standard for the place in which you work and you're, you're accepting that not everyone wants to see your, your tattoos, not withstanding. do, I do know someone I said, why, why are you covered in these tattoos? And by covered, he wasn't quite the whole full face, but what I mean is, his arms were getting to the point that he was, he needed a third arm because he was running out of arms.

And he said, but they all, you know, they have meaning. They remind me of something in my life. I'm like, fuck, if you're going to do that for everything that happens in your life to remember, you're going to need 12 bodies because you know, that's the way your life will run. But point being, will take, I'll take the change being that tattoos are so accepted. The dropping standards is that you don't realize there's a time and a place to cover up. And there's a time on the beach to

go topless and flex and show everyone your life story and your 12 tattoos? There has been cultural change and that happens with every generation. That's not a new thing. It's been forever and ever. We see how the evolution, as we mentioned before, for example, going to the races, going to cricket, going to any major sport, it was a...

a proper dressed occasion compared to today where people are more casual. The standards, you've mentioned one area in restaurants, how else have standards dropped? Well, I think like music. But in what way? it a type of music, genre of music? No, not the genre per se. But if you listen to a lot of music today and

There's a lack of storytelling, proper storytelling in the music. Now, again, that can be subjective because someone can say, I still told a story about my time in the hood and how I got my money and my bitches and, you know, there's still a story there. And I accept that. But there's no, it's nearly like everything is.

Garfield Samuels (: 07:04

It's boiled down to you're telling your story of your alleged success or desires in your life that revolve around getting women and getting money and a certain type of car. and nothing else. it doesn't look at any aspects of life or So when we look back at say the eighties and some of the music and like Jessie's Girl, even though, very famous song. I said to my daughter,

Cause I was teaching her, she now calls them story songs, which I think is wonderful. She's 16. Story songs, which are things that she can hear the story in the So Jesse's girl, for example, tells the story of his, his envy and desire for, you know, he's a, he's best friend's girlfriend. Now he seems like quite an asshole. It's a catchy song, great song, but you're, eyeing off your best mates girl. but there's a story there, you know? So if you come on Eileen by.

Dexys Midnight Runners, there's a story there. Tina Turner, what you get is what you see. There's a story there. Africa, Toto, there's a story there. The point being all these things that these great artists were telling you about their desires, their loves, their past of what it was coming up. And there was a real talent in only having three, three and a half, four minutes until you get Queen with Bohemian Rhapsody that's a bit longer.

But telling a whole story within that time and it's not that repetitive, know, pussy, drugs, money, money, cars type thing. So in all the way, think the predominance then is talking about three, maybe four subjects, which is constantly repetitive rather than actually looking at the wider life and generally just what is happening to an individual or individuals.

in society. Correct. Yeah. And don't get me wrong. I'm not, you know, for those that taking this as an attack on rap, if you went to my playlist, I've rap music in there. Some of it's brilliant and it's even the same. Some of the rap today doesn't tell the great story that used to be in a brilliant rap. And look, both of us listen to a different wide range of music. So it's not a hit on any particular genre that is being discussed here as falling standards per se.

Garfield Samuels (: 09:28

If music is one aspect of it, you mentioned about working in a restaurant and the, well, would say lack of classiness, but the reduction in standard in terms of what should be covered or not covered. What else in society is aware there are standards lacking? I think across the board, you see it.

in how people are dressed in their jobs. You see it in the work they perform in their jobs, the lack of pride that one takes. So this is what I'll get to. What I'm saying about the standards is because it transcends into how you view. So it could be everyone gets a haircut and there's a lot of terrible haircuts out there. And again, I'm not talking about the fashion because in Australia at the moment with the mullet as they call it, it's not the style.

The style can still be done well, right? You can do a style that someone doesn't like, but you can see the artistry and it's blended in properly. It's done nicely. know, if someone comes and paints your house that it's, you know, even that it's done well. So it's, the decline in the pride that people take and what happened. Correct. And when you, when you maintain those standards, cause you mentioned how people dress at the sport. Now the irony is we all know in sports in the NBA,

World Cup soccer, cricket, coaches don't let those standards drop because if you have a team that training starts at 8 a.m. and people start rocking up at 8.30 and one rocks up at nine and you just let it go and people care less, they become careless. So the standards of how they play and their fitness levels and their cohesion starts to decline. So standards really matter. And I'll give you an extreme example, right? Let's look at Playboy.

When playboys start and I know there are plenty of listeners that will, you know, it's not their thing, but you'll see where I'm going with it in a minute. even if you disagree playboy and Miss Universe and these sorts of contests celebrated the beauty of women. And it would be in a, you know, it would be in nice outfits with hair done with their makeup done. And it was meant to be putting up the epitome, whether it was real or whether it was attainable to most, but was putting up this image of a standard of beauty.

Garfield Samuels (: 11:56

Where a lot of the stuff now, like you'll see things of, you know, half shaved hair, girls with tattoos all down their necks and like there's a lack of beauty in what it is in that form. you know, what we used to look at as women in a beautiful long evening gown. So here you miss universe. It wasn't just the bikini contest. It really wasn't just about, let's look at her body. It was an evening gown and their hair was done and their makeup. was a standard that this woman.

was meant to be held up that whether she was walking on the beach in her bikini, which quite frankly, no one walks on the beach with your heels, with your bikini and your hair and your makeup. But yeah, the bikini through the evening gown. And then of course I asked questions so they could articulate that there was something between their ears as well. So as much as you might say, objectification of women, that's fine. They'll accept that for me. But the point I'm making is there was a standard that was there. It wasn't that.

anyone could just, you know, take your clothes off and then take a photo of me and wow, I'm, you I'm it because I've just decided to do this. Yeah. Well, just picking up on that, Dave, a lot of people will look at the, some of those changes though, even to the mixed world, et cetera, to say, well, it had to evolve. so including, I don't know, different hairstyle, not being as prim and proper as it used to be, or having someone.

who wants to express themselves through having tattoos on their hands in a Miss World competition or whatever. You alluded to Playboy, which I think some people may take. Some people can get offended. don't really care. for the people out there, just on that one, just to clarify for the people out there that get upset and it's fine. Get upset if you want to get upset. But the point being is actually men used to look at women differently, even at that level. And I'm not saying that, you know, that's

That's the Beale and Endle of women because a woman is far more than what she looks like. In fact, what she looks like is really the last thing that matters. But the point of what it is, is there was a standard, even though that was a perception. So what I'm saying is in life, you shouldn't get upset if you don't reach utopia individually or collectively, but you have to have a standard to aim towards. we'll touch also in a second, something you

Garfield Samuels (: 14:24

mentioned earlier, which is about having pride in what you do. And that's also attached to standards falling. But you mentioned also about hairstyles. now you're a little bit about hairstyles and barbering and all that, having done yourself as well too, being a barber.

Would you advocate Kim Jong Un's hairstyle? That's a very unique one. Everyone should have a Kim Jong Un. That should be the one and only hairstyle. Is that a standard to aspire to? No, it's not. So I don't mean it in that. That's a really good example you've given actually. A really good and samey reason. Explain. Well, I think there's like four government approved hairstyles in North Korea and one of them is the Kim Jong Un.

And I think that that that's ridiculous, right? You shouldn't, you shouldn't turn around and say, these are the hairstyles. People should have a right to individually express themselves, but the person that's doing your hairstyle should have standards that the hairstyle you choose, it is done well. So for example, let's use an undercut as an extreme hairstyle. And to those that don't know what I'm talking about, like where you lift the top of the hair up and you, shave underneath.

Now, even though you might say people don't like that this really short here and this long hair hanging over it, the guy that does it, should still be even on each side. So the right side shouldn't be up here and the left side down here. So the standard in the craftsmanship is you look at it, it's even. The long bits that you leave when he cuts it, it should be even. So the standard is with that craftsman, you may be expressing yourself, but you deserve the standard that it's done well. So if it's a zero fade.

You know, it should be even and it shouldn't be shaved up so high that you look like you've got a head of a pyramid. Or if a woman's getting a color, then she should be happy with her color. Cause the standards are even if you want to be purple, purple head single with a cat to a no JD, you should still, the purple should be a nice, even distributed purple that's done professionally into a standard. So it's that, that's what I'm talking about. The standards is on that side, not,

Garfield Samuels (: 16:40

on the individual choice. Now, having said that, there are still reasons why you might limit what people can do in terms of their hair. You're talking about the army, for example, the army, can't have whatever you want. Yeah, they have specific. They have specific things. And the reason why they're doing that is because it's uniform. What they're doing is setting a standard. They're saying this is what's expected so that we have people that function in unity.

and obey the commands and understand that there's a hierarchy and orders to be followed because if you can't instill that in the haircut and the dress code, well, how are you going to instill it in the battlefield? So now I know that's a more extreme example, but even in schools, one of reasons I went to school where we had to wear a tie and the top button had to be done up and the tie had to be pulled up not halfway down and the hair had to be off the collar and it used to get checked. you'd have all these.

All these guys standing there with their head tilted forward, pulling their shirts down, you know, around their waist to try and create this look that was off the collar. But the reason why they were doing that is to instill some standards and some pride in how you dress. So when I say things have changed. Now I worked in corporate for the last few years and I didn't wear a tie, but I always had a suit jacket. I had the long sleeve shirt.

had nice shoes, nice belt, whatever. So you would argue that the standard, you would argue that the fashion has changed, I no longer needed the tie, but the standard didn't drop in terms of that I would turn up to work in a t-shirt and shorts and things like that. Flip flops. And flip flops, exactly. So when I was working at the University of Sydney, I remember once that a girl turned up there in a skin colored tight bodysuit.

Right. Okay. And this is somebody who works at the university. Someone that was working at the university. Now her manager, female, thankfully, because a man could not say anything, sort of pulled her aside to tell a little bit inappropriate because it was that tight. You you saw everything. And if you know what I'm talking about with everything down there, I think we get a picture. Yeah, exactly. So it, so if you're not going to have some standards, is that the way people can dress? And if you think

Garfield Samuels (: 19:08

that everyone has a right to complete individual freedom at all times. Well, okay. Does that mean that you happy for your son or daughter's teacher to turn up in her G string bikini and teach math? Is that because that's what you're arguing. If not, why not? And if you say, cause there's meant to be standards in certain situations, that's what I'm talking about. Don't know how many boys would be learning under those circumstances. Well, true. so you'd be low. That's for sure. There's a great,

There's a great Family Guy episode where they moved to Italy. I think it's Peter's part of like a witness relocation program. They moved to Italy and Chris is in the class and is this very large breasted teacher. by the way, for people who may not be familiar with Family Guy, it's an animation. Yeah, it's a cartoon. Which effectively, satire which reflects on a family with the father, Peter.

And his family has the youngest of the children actually is a baby who actually talks. And the dog talks. And the dog talks as It's a great satire. It's not for everyone because it is very adult. But anyway, they're in Italy and Chris, the teenage son, is in the class and there's this extremely large breasted woman in the class and she's just standing there shaking her boobs back and forth going ratatatata, ratatatata. And Chris says...

Is this calculus? And she goes, I don't know. Ratatatata. And it's like, if you don't have standards, is that what you're going to accept? Is it they're dressed anyway, doing anything in what we could all agree would be an inappropriate situation? Especially in that circumstance for young kids. But it's not just young kids. How do set the standard? If you've got a 35 year old accountant and the 55 year old executive is turning up

wearing a t-shirt and flip flops and now all these tattoos are showing or he's doing whatever. Like what, what's the standard that you're actually expecting of their work? So there's a, there's a time that you agree once you're going into work, you're going into study. There are times that we all, we all have to do it. And believe me, I like sitting around too casual and comfortable, but

Garfield Samuels (: 21:28

There are standards that then seep into everything you do, that they seep into the work that you produce. Well, do you remember Young Mr. Grace in Are You Being Served? I do. I wish I could say I wasn't old enough to remember Are You Being Served, but yeah. Well, back in, well, this would be going years now, Are You Being Served was a comedy. And just to give a quick roundabout way, Young Mr. Grace was...

What an old Mr. Grace. He was the owner of the company. It was a department store. And essentially he would be, even though he was well dressed, that will give him that. Always in a suit. Always in a suit. But he would have, let's say, how do we explain this, very voluptuous young women? Well, they were his nurses, weren't they? Dressed in their young nurse outfit. Just looking after him. Just looking after him.

Yes. he would, the way in which the camera would pan, it would obviously give you an idea of where young Mr. who as I said, probably about 90, portrayed as being a 90 year old, would get particularly excited by his nurses. They were well dressed nurses. But well dressed nurses. So even in those circumstances, he well dressed for the portrayal in the workplace.

Well, it's one of it's one of those saying, like there's a saying, know, wearing your Sunday best. And it's sort of gone out the window. A lot of, a lot of people today wouldn't know what you mean when you say wearing your Sunday's best. Now it did relate of sorts because in Judeo-Christian society, Sunday was, you know, get dressed, go to church. But the point was that people were actually still, that, that standard was still there. And because people were,

taught to take pride in themselves and how they dressed and comb your hair and how you appeared. That flowed into the work, the work you produced. So as a tradesman, whether you're a carpenter, whether you're a bricklayer, whatever you did, you took pride in what you did and you respected that you worked hard for your money. And when you went out and spent your money, you didn't want to be ripped off. You want to get quality for what it is that you paid for.

Garfield Samuels (: 23:53

And that's how society ran all the way around. So in the Australian context, we look at a situation where, for those of you that are familiar with Opal Tower and Mascot Tower, or those that aren't, these are two new high rise sort of, you know, 10, 12, 14 story apartments. Might be a little bit under, a little bit over. But built within a year or two, there's cracking that...

is of such a concern that they evacuate the building and the structural engineers have to go in and start to look at whether or not people can return into the property. now it's not a one off that we happen to have had one situation. We've had a number of buildings in this situation. New build buildings. new build. And you think in a country like Australia that we supposedly pride ourselves on the quality of our workmanship and...

things like that, how is this happening? And for me, it is this whole decline in standards. So that's why I say when you see it in music, you see it in film, you see it in people's dress, you see it in people's attitude, you see it in their workmanship. And I think that we have to reach a stage where enough's enough, but it's very difficult because when you're talking to younger generation,

And you're telling them and let's forget, I'm not talking about saying to a girl that's inappropriate dress. I'm talking about male or female at work, the work you produced, you've missed something, forgotten something. It's not up to standard. And you're trying to tell them that because you want them to be better because you want them to be able to produce good work because in the future they will lead, they will get paid more money for the work they do because it's good stuff. You can't do it because everyone gets offended that you're attacking them.

Off to HR. So I did, I do know of someone that had a situation that there was an engineer and he said to somebody, you've made a, you made an error. This is wrong. This is not good enough. away and redo it. Next thing he gets called into HR. Did you say to Tom X that his work wasn't good enough? He had to redo it. He said, yes. He goes, you can't do that. He's really upset. He thought it taking. And this guy, luckily smart enough. said, not a problem at all.

Garfield Samuels (: 26:13

He said, can you please sign off on this report that you've approved the engineering build that you take responsibility when it falls down and they shut the fuck up. And that's what needs to be done because we've got our HR departments that are getting too caught up in feelings need to understand that some of the things you're teaching people, all right, maybe it's just painting the wall and you say it wasn't good enough. There's no big problem. If the building's gonna fall down, if the patient's gonna die.

Stop this stuff around feelings and start to understand that unless he had said to Tom, hey, Tom, you little prick, come here, you dickhead. What you've got wrong there is so catastrophic that you're gonna cause an issue, then you pull him into HR. But if he turns around and goes, Tom, you've missed out on X, you've miscalculated Y, this will cause a problem on the job site and there are risks. Why are you pulling that guy into HR? Now, conversely, I know we're looking at it

more or less from a Western lens. Now, there are the morality police in certain countries which enforce, as they say, standards related mainly to, I connected rather, to religious dogma. Now, how does that compare? Is there justification for those insistence in those countries where this kind of thing exists?

So we're talking about the Saudi Wahhabis police, which it's not, it's not only a Saudi thing. It's, no, can happen. There are other countries where you do have the Morales. Iran, et cetera. Well, the first, the first thing is I think the mistake there is, I think standards and morals are two separate things. So I think it's often referred to as standards, but the point is, no, no, you're correct. So I'm not, I'm not, I'm not challenging you there on, on that you've said the wrong thing, but I think it should be a.

Yeah, I think there should be, I think you can have standards because you can have an atheist and you can have standards because you have a very religious person. I think the standard itself and the ethics and things around that, I think are very different from morals. I don't agree with moral policing, so things like the Wahabist police in Saudi, even though I...

Garfield Samuels (: 28:34

to the best of my knowledge. think they're just about gone. I think this has been part of what MBS has. Changes. Yeah, the changes. Reformation of the. Yeah, correct. Because I, I do know Saudis. I did work for the Saudis and I do know some quite well on a good story from someone once that one of the religious police says to one of her friends, I can see your knees or I can see your, your, your ankles or some such through, through your long skirt. And she just responds, why are you looking?

And suddenly he walked off. that changed that. But I don't agree with that either. I don't think that you... I'm not saying there's not a God or there's not Allah or there's not Ganesh. People can think whatever they want and people can believe whatever you want and you can enforce within your own life what you want to do and observe what you want to do. But I don't like the idea of moral policing and...

And particularly I'll go directly from my own personal point of view here. I don't want to start moralizing and policing people when I am so flawed. That would be the first thing. You know, I've done plenty of things that are wrong, made plenty of mistakes. So I don't want to start enforcing things on others. One of the things when I do talk to either students I've looked after or my own kids.

is I like them to know that when they do something stupid, welcome to the club. Yeah, welcome to the club. We all do. And when you, when you don't take the approach of I'm perfect, why did you do that? I think that's the first starting point to realise, listen, you may have done something wrong here. let's own it. And depending on the severity, you know, let's, let's accept whatever the consequences are for that. And you'll move on and get better. We've been there, you know, I've been there and I've done that.

That's right, all of us have been. The essential theme there is, especially just referring back to the morality police, is giving or at least ensuring that people's creativity or at least their personal freedom is not, and this is when we're talking about standards here, is not being infringed on. So clear difference between in that situation where

Garfield Samuels (: 31:00

whether it is that someone's freedom in a sense of wearing a dress or wearing, I don't know, whatever they garb is in that culture or not wanting to wear it. Because in some instances, for example, women in some of these countries have to be covered from head to toe all the time. Yeah. And so it is that an infringement on

freedom of choice and freedom of expression versus maintaining a standard quote unquote. Well, for me, I don't think that's a standard. I completely disagree with that. Now I agree with someone's individual choice. If a woman says, no, this is what, know, I'm of the Islamic faith. And according to Quranic text and my beliefs in the Hadiths of the Prophet Muhammad,

This is how I interpret how I want to live. I support that a hundred percent. Cause again, I'm an individualist, a libertarian. I don't agree with the enforcement. while here's the simple reason I don't agree with the enforcement, whether it's Judeo-Christian, Islam, other religions, one of the common things amongst all the texts is only God can judge. That's a common thing. You very rarely.

Yeah, meet anyone of a certain faith that doesn't, only God can judge. So let's take the view that God exists. Now I do believe there's something more than us, but let's, that's irrelevant, but let's take the view that only God can judge. Well, why am I judging? Why are you enforcing something? Let's say that the choices that individual make are all wrong. Let's say they're all wrong. Well, God will make that judgment, not you. So you can still.

get on with someone, you can still be friends, can still work with someone, you can still be neighborly, you can still treat them fine in the community as a citizen, because God's gonna judge them, it's not up to you to start meeting out the punishments or ostracizing or moralizing. And in my experience, and I'll only speak directly from like Catholic upbringing, a lot, not all, but a lot of the people are the most vociferous in terms of the faith and

Garfield Samuels (: 33:22

in the front few rows at the church and, you know, wearing the cloth are often hiding something, you know, four of the brothers at my school that I think it's for, but, the school I went to end up in, in prison for pedophilia. So, and again, I'm not saying every brother, I'm not saying every priest, but you know, for me, it's one of those things that I do find too often. people want to want to pretend they're better.

better than others when it's not the case. Actually, there's a, I'm just thinking of a situation. I had an issue with somewhere, I won't name where I worked because I don't want to, you know, it's a sensitive topic for people. Anyway, these girls came and complained to me that this particular staff member, he was an ass and he was a complete dickhead. Treated them poorly, gets to the point that I need to escalate it. I go off to a very senior staff say, listen, here's what's happening.

He's incompetent, he's incapable, he's how he's treating people. And I said something like, I don't know, I don't know how the fuck he got this position. And the senior person says to me, Dave, just a bit of feedback. He said, I don't worry about the language, but some people might be worried with, you know, the F-bomb and blah, blah, blah. And I thought, okay. But I've just laid out that you've got a serious problem with this guy.

Girls are complaining, girls are into it, you're worried about, fuck. But I took it on board, right? Cause I get it. Anyway, the next day, lo and behold, I get a, cause I was working in higher education. the complaint. Nope. get an article that comes through on my feed about the study that had been done that showed people that swear are more trustworthy. I said this. So that's your justification for swearing. Well, I sent this straight off to.

to the guy. Now it doesn't mean that I'm perfect, but the point, one of the things I think we get wrong in the irony of standards, because standards matter when they're real. So when they're not real, I'll give you some examples when they're not real. Personally for me, I worry about someone that I never see them angry. never see them admit they made a mistake. I never see them swear. And the reason why is because we're all infallible.

Garfield Samuels (: 35:45

So how can you be that perfect? Now here are the global examples of people that portray how wonderful they are when they're full of fucking shit. Bill Cosby. Bill Cosby used to say, I don't swear in my comedy, it's beneath me, I'm too good for that, while he was drugging and raping women.

Lance Armstrong used to do is live strong and I'm this and I'm perfect and give the charity. So it's an exact opposite of what they portray. Exactly. When he was cheating, taking drugs, destroying people's lives. there's countless, countless numbers of people like this. anyone listening can think of any situation they've had where someone presents the image. As X as being the standard. Correct. living an opposite life to

So why I want standards, don't get me wrong. I didn't work in corporate and sit in meetings. And when we're having a discussion about the best way to do things, I didn't sit there and say, this is stupid. It needs to be that way. Right. I knew the time, I knew the place, I knew the standard, but right now we're in a podcast having adult and adult conversation about serious adult topics that if people are upset, don't, they don't have to listen. That that's okay. But some of the things we're talking about, I don't need, I don't need to.

set the standard cause I'm not in a professional setting. I'm worried about, our Islamic faith person over there, our Christian faith person, those are here. Our young lady over here, our atheist over here. And we're, just discussing the topic. We're discussing the realities of life here where it's, this is more raw. This is more if people are going to actually have any

Any reason to listen to us and think these guys are worth listening to it's because we're not putting on the bullshit. We're not putting on a broadcast and the show. We're having the type of conversations that they're having when they're not in the workplace, when they're sitting at the pub, when they're talking to their friends. And that's, that's the essence of why we're, why I say things the way I do. And it's, it's essential tenant and theme of this podcast. have a right to be wrong.

Garfield Samuels (: 37:53

It absolutely is. The standards matter and whether or not it's agreed on, but it is something that can affect society in a big way. We spoke about dress, spoke about somewhat religion in which standards are applied in some countries, music, et cetera.

What about the culinary arts, food? Well, think standards have definitely dropped in a lot of things there. Some of the things, but well, let me clarify. have been also, we must recognize, great food, great restaurants, which have been open, let's say, in more recent times. So that's not to take away from the wonderful restaurants and food out there.

in other aspects, which I'm sure Dave is going to tell us more about his experiences of standards dropping. Well, standards. Foods are really good topic to bring up because obviously having a really high quality restaurant over McDonald's, you can make the mistake of saying McDonald's have lower standards. I don't consider. Well, I never used to consider that the case. Now, I'm not a fool. I know the McDonald's burger is not the filet mignon, but

Bear with me. So the people that are selling you at this price, that's their standard. So I'm selling you a $90 steak. It needs to come out the standard of a $90 steak. I'm selling you a $5 hamburger. I don't expect the standard of a $90 steak. However, all of us used to know that if we were out somewhere and you needed a bathroom, you'd find the nearest McDonald's because the bathroom is really clean. That's not the case anymore.

The standards at McDonald's have dropped and I'm sure that a lot of listeners will agree the last time you stopped in a McDonald's bathroom, how dirty they are or the standards of the staff serving you the way their uniforms aren't even as neat, aren't even as clean, the McDonald's aren't as clean. So their standards have dropped. Is it the franchise system may have resulted in this?

Garfield Samuels (: 40:18

No, I just think it's standards dropped in general, because I've been across a number of McDonald's and when I say a number, personally, I don't eat McDonald's. The kids do. But even occasionally, because my kids ironically, unlike me, they eat healthy. But I do stop in a lot of McDonald's if I'm out somewhere and I want a bathroom. So this isn't this hasn't been one McDonald's and it hasn't been on one occasion. So I see the standards even even they're dropping. So it

McDonald's used to be somewhere that you would have been proud for your kid to have a part-time job when they were growing up because McDonald's set standards about being there on time, about your uniform was still neat, about the way in which you served customers, about the cleanliness of the facility, including the bathrooms. Those things are missing even in McDonald's that used to be lower end food, high end standard of service and cleanliness.

Is that across the board for fast food chains? Again, like you, I'm not a fast food kind of guy, so not sure how that bands out across society. I don't go... I've probably noticed it in hungry jacks as well, the standards are down.

And by some of those standards to some of the bathrooms, they're as clean as you could get them because the standards not there that they're after five years, even replacing dirty old broken items and not getting the graffiti off that Joanne really doesn't want a good time caller and wave a number. So you see graffiti and stuff that's on there. They don't even clean off and replace. You see it on trains. You get on public transport and you see the lack of standards at times on, on public transport.

And you just segued to what we want to look at next, public service. The building of roads or provision of roads done by whether a local council or state or other governments. The prevailing, I guess, perception of the public is that there are standards dropping in relation to what local governments provide, what state governments provide.

Garfield Samuels (: 42:37

Is this the result of lack of funding? Not as much funding as before or standards falling because, well, the central theme of what we've been discussing before is just a lack of pride in the workers and what they want to or how they apply themselves in terms of their jobs. think this one's multivariate, but there's probably...

a little bit of an unusual aspect to this one that doesn't exist in some of the others. And that would be, I see a lot of people in government and local government that actually get taken for a ride because they haven't worked or experienced the type of work in which they're overseeing. So for example, if someone turns around and says, yep, here's, we're going to build this road and

We're gonna put on six inches of base and we're gonna do this and we're gonna do that the people that check it oversee it rude through that report have never worked in construction or built roads and if it looks like that's what it is and it's met the standard you tick the box or if you go out and check it you don't really have a look to see whether or not you've Really put four inches when you're supposed to put six So I'd suggest there's a lot of people and I'm hearing this even from

I'm hearing this from people I know in construction, that they say the people are certifying things and not trade background where. And this again is not all, but it's just a- It's not all, but it's becoming prevalent. Because the best of my knowledge, 30, 40 years ago, a lot of people that would have been overseeing those projects for local government, once upon a time worked in that industry and might've got to 45, 50 and-

didn't want to do the hard yards as far as breaking the back on the tools and took a job as an inspector, a supervisor, and they knew what they were looking at. They knew what they were doing. Where now we have a lot of people in government that went to uni and did say a Bachelor of Construction Management, but they never actually worked in the construction industry. Or not enough years spent in the field to be able to seriously do the full of what is required for the job in terms of inspection. Yeah, correct.

Garfield Samuels (: 44:59

Even in, even with my experience, mine did my apprenticeship, I can literally watch someone pick up the tools of our trade and tell you whether they're any good before they start. Cause I can tell you what they pick up to use on a certain job, how they hold it. And I can already tell you, and I can say in our industry, it's terrible. So if, if that is even half the case of others, you know, the standards are really, really low.

And again, one of the mistakes, let's use construction. One of the mistakes that gets made by people that buy say investment properties that then got caught out with the towers we're speaking about that they had to evacuate is people look at the facade. they walk in and your wife loves the look of it because it's stainless steel appliances and a Caesar stone benchtop and it pops. Wow, wow, wow. But you really need a building report that what's behind the walls.

and how it's been done and what the structural issues may be. So, you know, that sort of stuff is part of the problem. And again, you know, it's standards. If people took pride in their work, you wouldn't do that and walk off a job site because you couldn't live with yourself. Well, it opens, I guess, to the next question of improved standards or how to improve standards.

is going to be a big, a really big task because it has implications mentioning about buildings, roads, bridges, et cetera. Where we live in New South Wales, in Australia, there is more emphasis now being put.

by the state government on those approval or at least the inspectors who go out and inspect these buildings to ensure that there is some level of the standard being applied. Along with making those move, what else is an across the board?

Garfield Samuels (: 47:09

as people we should be thinking of to ensure that we have good standards going forward. Because as we said, this could lead to really, really serious and catastrophic situations if they're not addressed. Well, even in health, if you don't have people with standards in the health services. But I think it starts at home and at schools. So we need to, at home, what is it that you're seeing the standard for your children?

And definitely at schools, I think, you know, a bit more respect in the classroom and a little bit more discipline, get a bit of pride back in the people. I don't think, like remember the days, I don't know what it was like in Jamaica, but back in the day, if you got in trouble at school, you didn't want your dad to know, because then you got a second round when you got home. yeah. There's a of people today, if the child got in trouble at school, they want to turn up to the school and say,

What'd you do to my child? So I think the first thing is in your home, you need to take responsibility that you're that that's where the standards are set for manners, politeness and respect. The teachers reinforce that, but they're not the ones they're meant to instill in the first instance. They're there to teach math, science, English. So you don't want to overload our teachers as we have with all this sort of stuff that's unrelated to.

their skill set in teaching the topic that they're there for. So set the standard at home yourself to make sure please and thank yous. Your child when they go out, they're dressed neat, they're showered, they brush their teeth, all these sorts of things that they're, what do you say, a Lego beast? They're not a Lego beast. I learned this the other week at Jamaican term for a wild child, a Lego beast. So you make sure they're not a Lego beast. Then you support the

the school. So you want discipline back in the school. And instead of jumping the gun, if you find out your child is in trouble and wanting to rip the school, find out why and if it's warranted, which 99 % of the time it is, support the school in what they do. Take out the cumbersome and unnecessary administrative tasks or the things that they're teaching at school that you're meant to be teaching at home. So.

Garfield Samuels (: 49:33

I think that that's the start and it doesn't have to be, you know, go back to my day with a tie on and done up. what's proper keening? Well, used to have a, to be honest, I have an issue with that. I got the strap twice in my school lifetime and I deserved it both times. So personally for me, I actually support that. I know people don't. and again, I'm fine with that. The majority of population says, no, no, that's old school. Don't do it. Yeah. Well, whatever. But find a way in which.

we don't have kids in class saying F you to parents. Let's stop constraining our police. again, you're better off- Because it falls on society to then do the correction if it's not done at home. Correct. And not only do you have to do the correction, but the correction is far more costly for everyone. By a long shot. So an example, 13, 14 year old smart ass boy.

letting the cops scare the crap out of him and give him a kick in the ass takes the cops all of 10, 15 minutes. Let's even say half hour. It doesn't take that long. You know, a couple of big, scary cops to, to give you a bit of a kick in the ass and shake you up. There's 15 to 30 minutes and you're going to learn you're not, you're not the toughest guy around. You know, you can get yourself in serious trouble. The police go on their way. You go on your way and hopefully you've learned problem solved the way in which people want to do it now.

The police can't do this. They can't say that. So your kid becomes a bigger smart ass. And then when they're over 18, it's a bigger problem because now they're in courts. The courts are covered by the taxpayer because we're the ones forking out three or $4,000 an hour, whatever it costs for our courts. And instead of your kid being scared for 15 minutes, he's now facing serious consequences that can be jail time as well because you kicked the can down the road.

So we've created all these situations that we want to deal with all the same problems that have always existed and will always exist through an over complex and unnecessary burdensome compliance requirement of paperwork and courts and people's rights where really a good clip around the ear on a kick in the ass would have solved it. But Dave, the school of thought exists out there where, and you kind of mentioned it just there, that in disciplining children,

Garfield Samuels (: 51:56

especially early in life, the way you describe it may actually impact them in such a psychological way which could harm them and not necessarily result or give the result, intended result that you're after. Well, if that was the case, the world wouldn't have achieved everything it's achieved because that's the way we used to do it. Where the reality is all the literature and the stats are pretty

clear in the last 20 or 30 years that what we have is this amazing amount of people that hurt feelings, mental health issues at a time when they should be saying, how good is life? I've got instant access via the internet. I'm healthy. I don't fight a war. I've got all these job opportunities. I can do a trade. can go to uni. I've got iPads. I've got phones. I've got a multitude of foods. So at the very time that they should be the happiest, they're the unhappiest.

where if you go back to where we had far less and we had discipline, and again, I'm not talking military, militaristic style, you let's have wars, let's be nationalists. What I'm talking about is just, you know, some responsibility, accountability, taught to have pride in yourself, taught to have self-respect, taught to have respect for others. And occasionally when you step out of line, and believe me, this won't happen for every young male, because every young male...

is not a smart ass, it'll happen for guys like me that once or twice will get the clipper in the ear hole. It'll happen for maybe twice a month for those that are worse. It might happen never for someone like you. So it's not a one size fits all, but you're turning around and you're just making bullshit excuses all the time for something throughout history that's proven time and time again, and it's a universal. So if you look around the world at societies that have

you know, extremely low crime rates are very safe, there's discipline, right? If you look at societies that produce quality work, there's self-respect. So these things have been proven, they tried and tested, we've thrown them out, you know, we allowed people to tell us we were wrong and that we couldn't do it this way, make changes, we accepted that, we've run the experiment and we're worse than we've ever been. So time to get back then to the old ways of working.

Garfield Samuels (: 54:21

Some of the old ways, some of the old ways. As I say, I'm not talking about, you know, line up every kid in school and just give them the strap. But I'm talking about, you know, the kid stole bubble gum from the local service station. Why are we putting him through the courts when the cops can give him a scare and you can teach him why you don't turn around and steal? Well, more or less, I think more applying common sense and not...

Because I'm not advocating for the strap or anything like that. there is good evidence to also suggest that the strap, or constantly giving the strap, does not necessarily produce results. No, constantly giving something doesn't work at all. It needs to be something that has an impact. An impact, yeah. So in that regard, then, this is what the challenges are, one of the challenges of society.

Where do we go next? How, how does this then get addressed? And, and, and it's something to think about really holistically across society. I'd love to say it gets addressed and we're going to change it through a conversation and policy implementation. I think that's not going to happen. It's not going to happen at all. I think what will happen is there are people who are going to hit rock bottom. So we're either, we're going to end up in a war and people are going to realize how lucky they are.

and go through sort of deprivation and punch in the face thing, or your kid's going to end up bankrupt because they didn't learn any discipline, so that discipline doesn't run through their fiscal decision-making. I just think that on an individual and a collective level, what we're going to see is people will have to hit rock bottom and that will change. This just seems to be a human.

a human behavior. can talk about things all the time and say suggest this, suggest that. But, know, and to be fair, you know, to be fair on an individual level as a young man, you know, I didn't listen. You don't listen. You have to run into the wall sometimes for you to make a change. So I'm not, I'm not saying as if, how stupid society, they're not listening. I know I didn't. And you did get the correction, but then with a strap, right?

Garfield Samuels (: 56:43

Yeah, I did with the strap. But once was for fighting and once was there was a guy, you you always had that small guy in school who was a smart ass, but he was too fast to catch. And I picked up a, I couldn't catch him in the classroom. I picked up a chair and was about to throw it across the classroom at him and brother Benedict walked in and saw me with the chair above my head about to throw it. And I got it for that. But no, I'm not talking about the straps or the stuff it can be.

anything in life that you, you do, and you just sort of not taking responsibility and you, you end up hitting rock bottom and suddenly you're forced to change. Well, think, I think society is going to be forced to change because we're just having so many people off the charts that are mentally can't get anywhere or hurt feelings and not functioning that people are going to be forced to say, actually, you know what? didn't work. So we better make a change because otherwise we're going to have

50 % of people had just spent all their day at home on medication because they got hurt feelings. Interesting. They won't be storming the beaches of Normandy anytime soon. Interesting. Well, whether or not you agree or disagree, you have a right to be wrong. And so hit us up on the socials. Tell us what you think. Tell us your feelings. Tell us your feedback, your opinions. All welcomed at

Anytime that they're welcome, but tell me your thoughts. Don't give me feelings. You can tell me I'm a ticket. don't know. welcome feelings. We welcome thoughts. We welcome feedback. All of the above. I'll take, I'll take feelings that are grounded in reality. Thanks for listening. Even if they're not, you have a right to be wrong.