When Does Adulthood Begin
Growing up sucks! You have to start being responsible, taking care of yourself (and others), as well as paying your own bills! But when does a childhood end and 'adulting' begin?
Transcript
Well, Gary, another day, another discussion.
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:And today we're going to talk about when does adulthood begin after I saw a very
interesting article on Fortune that suggests a very high number.
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:How have you been?
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:Very good, Dave.
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:Well, that's very curious.
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:When does adulthood begin?
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:What do you mean by that?
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:I think that was pretty much clear in everyone's mind.
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:Is there a doubt?
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:Is that not the case anymore?
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:Well, I think it's, it's obvious it's generational, but this article suggests that the
millennials in Gen Z say it's around 30.
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:yeah, 30.
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:Yep.
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:So it's very interesting because there's a whole bunch of numbers that don't add up when
you were talking about 30 is starting to stop being a child.
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:Dave, when most of us older folk, when we left home at teens,
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:early twenties, that's out the window now you're, now an adult at 30.
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:Well, it's scary to think that that's their, their mindset for a number of reasons,
because this is this research or study poll, whatever you want to name it and call it.
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:that's a self-identified.
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:So this is not someone else turning around and saying, really?
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:Here's what we think.
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:Yeah.
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:So this, this is their, this is the responses from some millennials and Gen Z.
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:not someone writing an article that
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:that suggests based on observation and anecdote that this is what it is.
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:Or being critical or anything like that.
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:And let's face it, yeah, we all become the grumpy old man.
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:Back in my day.
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:You have those stories.
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:I used to walk through the snow across 3000 fields and then have to climb a mountain while
I piggybacked my donkey because it was tired from carrying all.
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:so, you know, you got to be careful that you don't always every generation likes to likes
to think the next one.
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:has it easier and it was tougher, but it should be, right?
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:If you're doing your generation right, you're making life better for the ones that follow
you.
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:But we're not necessarily talking about an improvement in quality of life.
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:We're talking about a self-identification of when the responsibility of adulthood begins.
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:Well, it's funny you mentioned about the donkey and the this and over snow and all that
jazz, but not that my...
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:grandparents and for that matter fact my father actually did that over snow but they that
was actually their experience because they were farmers and they had to go to market early
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:and they had to actually do this in the 4 a.m.
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:5 a.m.
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:to get to market which you know and get a position and put their you know goods and
whatnot so it's this is not so long ago
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:It still exists.
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:If you travel to many parts of Asia, Africa, South America, people do, you you make jokes
about having to carry your tired donkey, there's still is happening.
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:There are people that still carry water.
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:There are people that still, as you said, get out to the markets early and set up to get
their best positions.
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:Plenty of kids that walk miles to school, plenty of barefoot people.
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:And even just to get water from the well or wherever, take it home.
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:so yeah.
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:So to me, this, this finding should be alarm bells for Western society.
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:Cause to me, this is, this is one of those things that shows that we've gone too far in an
overcorrection or not even overcorrection.
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:Cause an overcorrection suggests there's a problem of the past.
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:And I don't suggest the changes are necessarily because there's a problem.
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:think it's technological improvements, access, all sorts of things that are good things.
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:But within that, what we've probably done is as we've made it easier and better, more
comfortable, we've probably not put the accountability and the responsibility equally as
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:we've given the opportunity and the access.
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:Yeah, and that has so many flow on effects of not having given or appropriated the
responsibility to, especially,
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:And we don't want to really just point at a particular generation, but Gen Z in particular
comes to mind.
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:Yeah, well, this study is the millennials and Gen Z.
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:And obviously when we talk about studies and data, we know there's always some great
people in the millennials, there's some great people in Gen Z.
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:There are some assholes in Gen X, right?
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:So we're not all saying as Gen X's that, we were the best, we were the greatest and there
was no assholes and we didn't get things wrong or we didn't have it easier than my
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:parents, our parents, our grandparents.
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:So what concerns me, let's start off with the macro.
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:So let's talk about how the nation states define you as an adult in Australia, US, Canada,
UK, Western Europe.
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:effectively between 18 and 21 with some variances, those countries around the world will
actually younger.
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:So 16 to 21, those countries will say you can drive a motor vehicle.
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:You can vote.
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:You can drink.
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:You can join the military.
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:Do the responsible thing.
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:You can access firearms.
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:can do all those things.
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:that society says that within that band width, you know, country to country, item to item.
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:that's where we define you're sufficiently add on enough to do that.
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:It lends you money so you can access credit.
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:So if you're talking about a generation that then say 12 years later using 18 as sort of
the middle ground between that 16 and 21 with all those steps to adulthood, that you're
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:adding a decade to when you think you're supposed to start out.
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:think, what the fuck?
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:Like that's concerning on a number of levels.
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:The thing is, is that it is expected and has been for many, many, many generations that
that early 20s is the period that one will not only just be known as an adult, but also
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:that's when you get very critical or you acquire critical skills that while you may not
know much about the world,
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:much about much.
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:it gives that that's the period that you gain the critical skills to be able to by say 25
to be able to hone your I don't know career or or be at least base knowledge in most
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:things.
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:But you're saying now this is now moved to 30.
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:100 % and it's not even
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:Like, career is probably not even an issue in this conversation because there's probably
even bigger ones.
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:So you're correct in the sense of using 25 as an arbitrary number.
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:You should have been our uni three or four years and you're no longer sort of a rookie in
your profession.
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:And your trade, you should have been out by five years and be a competent trades person.
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:So on that level, significantly, yes.
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:But it gets far deeper because let's start at this point and let's break it down.
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:Everyone knows in Western society, generally speaking, the millennials and generation Z
and you can, you've got the laptop there.
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:So just check me as I say this, but I think the life expectancy for this generation is
really somewhere between sort of 90 and, and a hundred for the millennials and Gen Z.
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:Now that's going to very slightly country, the country and the like.
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:But I think this is the first, the first couple of generations expected to live to a
hundred.
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:No problem.
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:I don't even mind for this conversation wiping.
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:10 years off that because what will break down, think will still, you know, it's only
worse the older you get.
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:let's call it 90.
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:Yeah.
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:Right.
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:So what that means, if you're talking about, you'll start to adult at 30 and by adult,
they're referring to, you know, starting to save money to get their own property, to
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:marry, to have families, all these significant milestones and commitments to your life.
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:So if you have got to 30,
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:And that's the point that you're going to start actually being fiscally, financially
responsible.
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:Here's some basic math.
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:That means from zero to 30, your parents have babied you up until anywhere between 18 and
22, depending, paid all the bills.
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:22 and 30, you then travel the world, party on, buy your designer clothes, eat out, buy
your cars.
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:Good luck to you, whatever, because you're not taking responsibility to save anything.
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:Then from 30 to 60 or 30 to 70, really, because we're looking at pension ages, 67 in
Australia.
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:So, and they're talking about pushing that out.
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:So again, for arbitrary numbers to try and round this across all these countries, let's
call it 65 that you can access a pension.
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:So that means between 30 and 65, you have to make enough money in that 35 years to pay
down any student loan that you've
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:accrued if you've gone down that path.
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:To get together a deposit for a property, assuming that the first time around that
property is not like a little studio or an apartment that's suitable for you on your own
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:end or your partner, that this is going to be suitable for a family without need for
growth, which means upsizing of the property.
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:You'll pay off that property.
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:You'll facilitate your lifestyle in terms of running the cars.
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:paying the school fees, feeding your family and do everything and make enough money to
then live from 65, self-funded retiree or contribute enough taxes that the state can
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:facilitate your retirement until you die at 90.
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:Now those numbers really don't add up for about 99.5 % of the world that can make enough
money in 35 years to do all that.
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:Yep.
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:So.
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:And by the way, the question you asked earlier, yes, you are just to confirm that the
expectations for Jen, that millennium millennials rather Jen Z is in that hunt a hundred
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:by the time they get to that age.
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:Yes.
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:Which makes it worse because we've just added 10 more unproductive years to your life.
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:And by unproductive, what I mean, I'm not saying that let's start, you you got to 90
everyone's to be euthanized.
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:It's that.
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:you know, at the end of the day, you're not working from 90 to 100 walking the beat as a
cop teaching in the classroom, know, carrying bricks.
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:Yeah.
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:So, most, seems like most studies are just having a quick look is that the base level
would be about 85 for Gen, for Gen, for Gen X and then for Gen Z and Alpha.
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:Well, they're likely to exceed a hundred years.
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:Yeah.
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:So that, and that's, look, that's a, that's a good achievement medically.
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:and there's, there's a lot of upside, but there's also a lot of serious conversations that
nation states have to have about what that means.
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:And what that means is having those conversations from now, because planning in terms of,
another, and again, we think of a generation being about 30 years, that planning for the
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:next 30 years will have to start now, which will affect the same age group we're talking
about.
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:So we're nearly at the stage where we need a reversion rather than the extension.
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:So instead of pushing adulthood, the commencement of adulthood as a self-defined to 30,
we're the other way where we need to be actually reeling it back in.
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:And as a society and as parents, what we really should be saying is to start with again,
using 16 as the age that you finished the school certificate give or take in Australia.
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:That's the equivalent of year 10 around the world.
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:So before you're seeing your school in the US, before your A levels in the UK.
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:We nearly need to say to those kids that are going on to do trades and the skills based
from 16 to 20, you go out and obtain that trade certificate.
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:And okay, you're 20 now have a year or two, a little bit of you go travel the world, you
party, whatever, but 22, you got to start kicking into gear.
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:So those eight years between 22 and that self-identification of 30, that you're getting
that deposit, you're getting into the property market, you're starting to establish your
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:lifestyle earlier.
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:For those going onto university, it's the same sort of thing that you nearly need to say,
okay, listen, you went to uni at 18, you finished 21, 22, give or take.
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:You've had four years of the university party life where you're only on campus half the
year if that you traveled in the summer break.
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:And once you get out and you start making a full-time income, same thing.
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:Start to get your feet on the ground, start to actually be sensible and understand what
the implications are of you.
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:not adulting to 30, because those implications, the longer you delay it, the more fun you
actually have when you're younger.
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:So I understand it.
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:Don't get me wrong.
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:The yolo, you only live one generation.
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:But the consequences of that on the individual and the societal level are exponential.
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:Yep.
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:And it will, over time, manifest if the planning isn't starting or started from now, or at
least reasonably soon, that will manifest itself in so many ways.
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:the implications, as you said, for the economy, health.
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:I wonder if there are economists out there who have looked into this to start to do some
kind of estimates as to, or, well, I was gonna use a particular word, but let's not go
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:into that.
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:But really look at what this means, especially for, whatever affects the economy,
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:is going to have lasting and reeling effects to various aspects of life across the board.
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:So this is why this is really crucial.
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:It'll be interesting though, maybe that's for another podcast.
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:We ask an economist to really look deep dive into this particular subject.
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:There are some that I'd love to speak to on a particular topic.
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:But one thing I would suggest we need to be careful of though, when we discuss this topic
today and when society hopefully
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:discusses this and I think they will because it's just going to be something we're going
to hit the wall and we'll have no choice.
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:When we say the economic impact, we've had a previous episode where we've discussed
consumer versus citizen.
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:So again, I don't want decisions made purely on the concept of here's the economic cost
and we can maximise dollar value.
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:But that economic cost in terms of what we're referencing today,
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:includes that that's an economic cost to your lifestyle.
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:So that's a cost to the tax base that can facilitate services to support your health needs
as you age your family's health needs as they grow.
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:So we're not saying from the point of view of actually you know what you're eight years of
age let's go be a chimney sweep.
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:It's about actually ensuring that
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:as adults, as parents, as the older citizens of the community with the experience that
what we're doing is we're engaging on a topic with you, you know, on a familial level that
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:really matters.
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:And we're ensuring as parents, we're giving you the information you need.
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:We're giving you the push at times you need.
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:And sometimes you're hearing no, that you need, cause this is one of the reasons why that
generation thinks that 30 is, is the time of adult, because this is the participation.
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:trophy generation.
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:is the don't hurt my feelings generation.
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:Tell us about that Dave.
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:How does that, how did that work?
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:Or is it still the case today?
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:Well, it's the concept of that, you you can't, you can't keep score because you'll offend.
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:You can't turn around and say no to someone because you'll hurt their feelings.
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:You can't tell someone their work's not good enough because you're bullying, harassing
them.
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:And all of those things, we got dragged to use a political measure.
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:We got dragged so far left.
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:that we worry about feelings instead of facts.
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:And quite frankly, to put another ref at the end of that, we fucked up.
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:So, David, you're talking about like if say little Johnny or little Janey participating in
sport and well, Johnny finishes 10th and maybe the hundred meters or Jane finishes, I
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:don't know, in the discussed 10th that they get a ribbon or a trophy for turning up.
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:Yeah, there's nothing wrong with finding out your 10th out of 11.
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:It's terrible to find out your 11th out of 10 like I was.
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:But these things are really important because when you actually keep score, there's a
number of things that take place when you hear no or you keep score.
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:You start to learn maybe you're not as good at something as you want to be or you thought
you were.
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:So you'll either practice more to improve.
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:Or maybe you realize what your limitations are.
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:And within that limitation, a number of things end up and you say, you know what?
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:I'm not the world's best soccer player, but I'm, I'm happier to run around in division 100
with my friends and have fun.
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:That's okay.
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:Or you might find that, no, I actually really want to be good at sports.
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:So maybe soccer is not my thing.
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:So I'll try something else.
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:So if you actually, if you hear, know, if you get told your work's not good enough, if you
keep score,
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:What it starts to do is open up other doors for you and it starts to give you the
opportunity to build your resilience, your hunger, your adaptability.
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:So I'm not talking about, you know, going out to a kid that's 10 years of age on a
sporting field that misses a shot.
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:And you go, listen, Johnny, you little prick, you just cost the team.
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:I'm hooking you.
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:That's, that's not what I'm talking about.
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:But the fact that he missed and the game is lost and the score is 11-10, you let them know
the score is 11-10.
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:And if Johnny feels bad about missing the score, you ensure you comfort him and you let
him know that this is part of the sport.
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:There will be lows, there will be highs.
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:Exactly.
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:It is part of it.
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:It's not always a win, win, win, win, win.
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:There are times that you will lose and there are times that you will draw, just to use
analogy from sport as you're alluding to.
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:It is getting that resilience to be able to, for the next occasion, should you have a loss
the weekend before, to have the resilience to then come back, as you say, train or prepare
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:or whatever is required, to then lift your game to the next level or the next time you
have competition.
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:Correct.
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:And those things were the reasons why sport was so important, more so for boys when we
were younger, because boys
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:you when you're young, you tend to be more easily led and to get into trouble, the Idol
Hands Devils Workshop.
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:So it was something very important to try and keep them occupied.
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:think there's going to be a podcast to go over those.
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:The Devil, the Idol Hands Devils Workshop.
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:All the things you get up to when you're not preoccupied.
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:grandparents used to have some choice ones.
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:That's all right.
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:All the podcasts.
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:Sorry.
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:So those things really matter because the, what happens is a
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:In that regard, you keeping kids out of trouble, they're more focused on playing sport
with their friends.
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:So it's a healthy thing.
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:within that, you learn to work in a team, you learn to be a gracious winner or a gracious
loser.
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:You you learn all your motor skills, you learn how to take a hit and get back up.
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:You learn to accept the decision of the authoritative figure being the umpire or the
referee.
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:And how that if there is something, how you challenge it.
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:So you understand there's a team captain and the way the captain speaks to the referee or
the the the umpire and those things again are there.
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:That's the sandpit for life.
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:And because those skills are the same ones you take into the workplace.
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:You take into business because again, you do have relationships, your friendships.
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:Yep.
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:You take you go into business.
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:There is usually an ombudsman or a referee of sorts that, you know, well,
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:be there to say, if you're building a building, can't build on sand over 300 meters or
whatever it may be or whatever the restrictions are.
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:But there are, this is what happens in life.
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:So it teaches you from that sport, as an example, or other circumstances that it doesn't
have to be sport.
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:Scouts, that's another area where kids do learn to have, do a lot of things.
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:taught a lot of things, but also resilience.
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:That is one of the things team bonding, team and camaraderie.
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:Those are some of the things that come out of, know, organizations, great organizations
like the Scouting Movement.
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:Well, what's really concerning if thirties, when you start adult is, will you ever attain
that resilience?
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:Because the horse would have bolted by that.
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:For a lot of them it can, because that's when you can start to get stuck in the trap.
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:So for example,
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:I'll use travel as a really good example because it's something that's become so
accessible, but I think it's a bit of a trap.
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:And what I mean by that is this.
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:When I was younger, when I was an apprentice, a first year apprentice, so we're going back
35 years ago, the only people I knew that had traveled overseas, traveled the world, sort
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:of fell into one of three slash four categories depending on how you break it down.
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:So the first was...
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:the rich, the rich have always been able to travel and that's the way the world is.
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:And within that business people and sort of can be one in the same.
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:So that's why I say three or four categories.
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:So it can be the rich and business people.
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:Then the next group for the most part, and by travel, I'm not talking about you went down
to the local beach or took a caravan.
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:I'm talking about you jumped on a plane and you flew to another country and even another
state.
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:really another country.
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:And for Europeans, we're not talking about like Western Europe, where you you could easily
be in another country in half an hour.
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:We're talking about traffic for a good distance.
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:I'm talking about for people that don't realize to get on a plane and fly from East Coast
to West Coast in Australia, depending on which part of the East Coast and West Coast,
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:you're talking four to five hours.
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:Yeah.
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:So, you know, big, big country.
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:So that's just to get out of Australia.
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:Yeah.
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:So really what we're talking about, I'm talking about the people that would head from
Australia to Europe.
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:Australia to the US.
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:So the shortest flights were really talking about here in 12 hours plus.
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:So those were the first two, one slash two categories.
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:The next were people who'd worked their life, raised their kids and they were in their 50s
or 60s.
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:And at semi-retirement, retirement, and often this was when someone got what was referred
to as a golden handshake.
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:So.
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:They'd worked at a company, a utilities company or a government organization for three
decades plus, four decades plus, and they'd get this big payout as there was a
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:restructure.
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:And then they might go and do one big eight to 12 week European trip or US trip or
whatever it was.
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:And then the last category where the backpackers that could have been made up, of people
had just finished uni or in uni breaks or taking gap years.
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:And the reason why those categories were generally the only ones is it was expensive.
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:So in 2002, when I first left Australia, I was 27 years of age from Sydney to London via
Singapore on Singapore Airlines, which is one of the best airlines, if not the best
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:airline in the world, a return economy ticket was 2000, it like $2,180.
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:I think it was for one ticket.
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:And that they included a stopover in Singapore for two nights or three nights.
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:Where now, you know, 20, what are we talking about?
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:22, 23 years later, that same ticket would cost you $1500.
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:Far cheaper.
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:Yeah.
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:On the same airline.
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:So why I'm into trapping, this is something very relevant to this generation that are now
currently 25 to 35.
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:Is when that became cheaper.
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:Fantastic.
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:It's like anything.
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:If a TV becomes cheaper, if the laptop's cheaper, the phone is cheaper, it's great.
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:people can access it.
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:You know, you can do more of it.
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:You can consume more.
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:So in terms of travel, when you now say that, yeah, someone can go out and comfortably in
Australia, a professional or a tradesman can comfortably be making $1,500 a week to $2,000
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:a week after tax.
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:One week's...
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:worth of money covers a ticket.
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:So you say, okay, well, this is great.
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:Let's go and do it.
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:Now the problem is that's the ticket.
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:And when you, when people talk about cheap travel, they look at the flight ticket.
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:They tend for the most part to not start calculating all the incidentals.
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:my passport needs to be renewed.
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:I need new bags.
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:Now I know those two things tend to happen once every, you know, so many things, but
that's a start.
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:insurance, your transfer to the airports, then your accommodation, what you spend.
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:So what happens is as much as now it's fantastic, know, the average Australian in this age
range now will go to Bali, you know, in Indonesia, we'll go to Thailand, we'll do a
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:European thing, we'll go to North America.
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:This is fantastic and it's great.
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:Travel is a great thing.
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:But if that means that that year you spent $10,000 traveling and your partner spent
$10,000 traveling, over the next five years, that's $100,000 not compounded.
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:This is the same generation that will spend that $100,000 not compounded on doing that
travel that will then say, I can't afford to buy a property.
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:Well, that $100,000 is your deposit.
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:Now for people listening that are in Australia, and particularly in our major cities like
Sydney, where we're broadcasting from, they say, well, $100,000 is still not a deposit
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:because a house is $2.5, $3 million.
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:Well, why are you looking at 2.53 million dollar house?
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:Again, this is another problem with this generation.
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:Because there are other houses much further out.
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:because there are houses further out, outside of main city, out of South Sudan is main
CBD, whereby you can still get a house.
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:townhouses, there are apartments.
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:You're to start on the first row of the ladder.
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:And again, you get the counter argument.
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:where people say, back in such and such as day, my grandfather only paid, you know,
$20,000 for a house.
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:Yeah, your grandfather made $2,000 a year.
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:That's right.
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:Comparatively.
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:Now we do have, there is, I acknowledge at the moment in our part of the world and some
others, there is a disparity at the moment where they're say, for example, houses are four
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:times average income.
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:It's now eight, nine, 10.
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:It is skewed.
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:Poor, Yes, we'll do that in another podcast.
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:There are some things that we need to address to assist this generation, but you need to
start by assisting yourself first.
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:So that means that's what the market currently is.
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:So if you need to go to Parramatta and buy an older two bedroom unit, you've got a hundred
thousand dollars deposit.
348
:It's 500, $600,000 or you go to Penrith.
349
:That's what you do.
350
:You start that way.
351
:And if you're going to think adulting starts at 30, even if you're going to buy that five
or $600,000,
352
:apartment, you're putting yourself on the back burner.
353
:Now, when you mentioned economists, has any economist done this?
354
:Now, I'm sure they have because this sort of stuff underpins or it should be underpinning
government policy on a regular basis.
355
:Now, one economist that did write something sort of that relates to what we're talking
about, which is, is deferring adulthood until much later in your life.
356
:And then also
357
:you know, what I laid out about getting your deposit together, get a property.
358
:When the Sydney Australia property market started to really have a mega issue, Bernard
Salt wrote a really good article about some of the issues that are not on the side of the
359
:government and things that we do need to address that are skewing costs, but we're on the
self responsibility side.
360
:And one of the things he wrote was that if you're going to spend $20 a day eating smashed
361
:Avocado, which is smashed avocado.
362
:Of course, you're not going to have a deposit.
363
:So what he meant by that is instead of eating corn flakes or cereal at home and some milk,
you're spending $20 times five is $100.
364
:Your partner does the same thing.
365
:There's $200 across the year.
366
:There's $10,000 and that same extrapolation I laid out.
367
:And what he was really trying to say is you got to tighten your belt.
368
:You need to make some sacrifices.
369
:This is the reality of life.
370
:Yep.
371
:Now.
372
:In that article, there was actually a much better line that everyone missed because
everyone was focused on the millennials and the Gen Z got their knickers in because, I'm
373
:allowed to have avocado.
374
:But also, Dave, the...
375
:The fact is you can still have avocado at home.
376
:is actually cheaper having it at home rather than going out to a cafe and spending what
four or five times it will cost to have it out in cafe versus what you have at home.
377
:basically have five avocados a week at home, but by the we have half each and we have a of
boring stuff about what we do.
378
:But the better part of his article was he actually called the millennials and Gen Z.
379
:the generation that lived their retirement before they've worked.
380
:Now that's quite a statement.
381
:is quite a statement.
382
:But when you actually really think about it and now you're seeing them self-identify as
30, again, let's, let's reverse that.
383
:And let's say anyone that's either think of your parents, your grandparents, or your
current situation.
384
:And you think about your retire at say 65 and the next 10 or 12 years of your life, you
go, you know what?
385
:Let's spend what we have, whether we buy an RV and you travel the US, whether you start,
you fly off to Europe, if you're Australian, whatever it is you want to do.
386
:And for that next 10 or 12 years, you do a trip every year, you go out and you eat your
smashed avocado and taste your door, that stuff.
387
:Cause you're like, you know what?
388
:10 years from now, we're going to be 75 to 80.
389
:We're not going to want to do this.
390
:We're not going to have the energy to do this.
391
:know, life is very simple.
392
:Money is, is minimal in terms of what we'll need.
393
:That is, those are the, your retirement years at 10 to 12.
394
:Now let's reverse that to the millennials and Gen Z from that 18 to 30 that they're
self-identifying and what they're doing.
395
:Right.
396
:Because remember 30 is now the new adult.
397
:Is a new 20.
398
:Yes.
399
:And what are they doing between, why do they consider that?
400
:Because what are they doing?
401
:They're traveling.
402
:They're going out and partying.
403
:Got to go to Coachella.
404
:know, got to go to the Bat Sabri.
405
:Got to go to Burning Man.
406
:You know, buy the designer clothes.
407
:They are.
408
:they're living their retirement before they're getting out and realizing you're gonna earn
that.
409
:So Dave, it's, that's gonna be like an inverse graph when you, if you were to look at how
you plot the graph for somebody normally starting at 20 or 18 or whatever, and then at 65,
410
:70 or whatever retirement.
411
:So it's an inverse graph that you have.
412
:It is the inverse.
413
:Now people might, that might be their argument, right?
414
:So there's someone out there thinking, you grumpy old man.
415
:But that's significant because the thing is, that
416
:Who's going to pay the, well, is it the generation or two generations after millennial and
Gen Z who would then pay for that?
417
:Cause somebody has to pay for it.
418
:How's it going to work by the time?
419
:Well, we do.
420
:That's part of what the problem we've created by not having enough people working in the
workforce and the tax base.
421
:But I don't want to pick on them for that because that one's not their fault, right?
422
:It isn't.
423
:So to keep it within their own...
424
:ability to control things around responsibility.
425
:It's more that let's, you know, let's count on my own argument.
426
:Right.
427
:So let's say someone out there is listening.
428
:I'll assume that's the Gen Z's and the millennials that think I'm a prick, but it could be
anyone and I am a prick.
429
:But the point is let's say to counter it and they say, well, you've just explained why I
can do it now, because you've said those years, 65 to, to 80.
430
:that 15 year period, that's when people go and do this stuff.
431
:I want to do that stuff, but I believe I should do it while I'm young and fit and I can
chase girls or I can chase guys or I've got the energy to do it and whatever.
432
:Yes, right?
433
:Short answer is yes.
434
:That's a strong argument.
435
:All you're saying is I'm taking the 15 years that would have been there and I've made a
decision that while I'm young, I'm gonna do it.
436
:Here's the problem.
437
:And anyone that's my age and older,
438
:will tell you that this is the problem.
439
:You get tired when you get older.
440
:You can't do the extra shift like you can.
441
:You can't work the weekends like you can.
442
:You start to get cholesterol.
443
:You start to get sore knees.
444
:You get all these problems.
445
:people things.
446
:Well, it's not even, I'd like to say it's all people things, but fuck, I'm in trouble.
447
:between cholesterol and blood pressure tablets.
448
:But the reality is this is what happens.
449
:It is what happens.
450
:I mean, we laugh about it, it is what happens.
451
:is life.
452
:It's a reality.
453
:You'll start to know you're getting older when you can't sleep through the night without
getting up and going and taking a piss.
454
:And when you start getting to the point that it's multiple, then you're in real trouble.
455
:But taking that argument from them to say, that's all I'm doing.
456
:And let's start before we even get to that.
457
:I believe that you make your money, you do what you want with it.
458
:What I'm talking about here is as a responsible adult, what I want from my children, as a
responsible citizen in the community, the experience and knowledge I'm trying to pass on
459
:to you without you having to learn the hard way.
460
:And then there's a taxpayer, because again, these realities of I don't want the tax
dollars to be wasted.
461
:Unfortunately, they're wasted a lot, but that's why we're discussing this.
462
:So anyway, the argument is,
463
:No, I'm taking those 15 years of later life and I'm living it now.
464
:You won't be able to do the same things between 20 and 35 that you can take on the second
job, the third job, the longest shift and set yourself up for life because you're going to
465
:get to a point that when you're older, what you really want is you want to say, geez,
honey, I'm glad we've got no mortgage because I can't stand working for these assholes.
466
:I want to quit or the kids, you know what?
467
:I love them.
468
:I wouldn't swap them for anything, but it does tie you out.
469
:I'm really glad we're at the stage now.
470
:We're at 50, 55, 60.
471
:I just want to work two or three days a week.
472
:Why don't you just work two or three days a week and it's okay.
473
:If you're taking your retirement and putting it before you worked and you're now relying
upon those years that were meant to be 65 to 80, that you're now going to be working those
474
:years.
475
:It will not work.
476
:It won't work out because you'll be broken.
477
:And you will be broken.
478
:Dave is then talking about all the painful knees and ankles.
479
:All the things that come in.
480
:That mentally and older age.
481
:And by mentally, I don't mean that everyone that gets old has mental health issues,
because generally speaking, the generations before you're far tougher.
482
:What I mean mentally is your patience is not there.
483
:Right.
484
:So, you're more snappy.
485
:Yeah.
486
:This is just what happens.
487
:And in fact, why the benefits of getting older, because I don't want everyone thinking, my
God, this guy, this guy's making me get old.
488
:Painting a horrible picture of my getting old.
489
:No, it actually, if you're doing young right, older gets better because- And I think
that's the point that we're trying to make Yes.
490
:And this is why we're trying to share this knowledge is because it should be better.
491
:It should be easier.
492
:The quicker you own nothing and you have a roof over your head.
493
:And again, we'll do a whole nother episode on defining what you need for that happiness.
494
:But it could be a simple thing.
495
:You could be someone listening right now that your skill set is limited to you work in,
you work in Costco or you drive a truck and believe me, you're just as valuable as anyone
496
:else and don't let anyone tell you.
497
:what the point is, if you've got a simple home and you don't owe the bank and you don't
have credit card debt and you don't have a car loan.
498
:and your kids are happy and you've loved them and you're able to buy food and have a good
time and you're healthy.
499
:Believe me, the same principle applies.
500
:You don't have to have millions of dollars and get to 50 where what we're discussing still
matters.
501
:You'll wanna get to the point where as you get older, the reason why you see a lot of us
appear to be grumpy, we make the joke grumpy old man, but the reason why we appear that
502
:way is we tolerate less bullshit.
503
:And the reason why we tolerate this bullshit is again, if you're doing adulthood, right,
you're tolerating less of your own bullshit.
504
:You don't tell the lies.
505
:You don't make the mistakes.
506
:You take ownership of things.
507
:So that's really what's about.
508
:what you're seeing often, not always, but what you're seeing often with people that will
say something you think they're snappy or they're impatient or they've lost the tolerance.
509
:Often it's no, they're just calling bullshit because they've learned.
510
:What really matters in life and they have far less tolerance for the garbage?
511
:Yep, and just from an article from the fortune I think they're magazine but also this is
just from their website It's just talking about that same study that Dave mentioned from
512
:the very beginning and it's some of this of this show and It mentions about Gen Z's
extending the timeline for adulthood with me
513
:which may not, or rather which many not considering themselves fully grown until they're
nearly 30.
514
:Now this shift coincides under just reiterating a few points made in this article.
515
:This shift coincides with an increasing trend of young adults remaining financially
dependent on their parents well into their 20s.
516
:A new study from the Life Happened survey, they did a survey of 2000 Americans split
evenly
517
:by generation and they had 500 Gen Xers and 500 Millennials.
518
:500 Gen Xers and also 500 Baby Boomers.
519
:And on the major milestones that define adulthood and it's no longer simply turning 18.
520
:Now, most said that, and this is just from the survey, most said that being an adult
begins when you pay
521
:your own bills, that's 56 % of that, be financially independent, 45%, and put
responsibilities over fun, 38%.
522
:Other markers include moving out and joining the world of work.
523
:There's also, it continues, it talks about with all those milestones further out of reach
for young people today than ever before.
524
:It is no wonder that only 11 % of Gen Zers admitted they actually feel like adults.
525
:11%.
526
:What more?
527
:They have agreed that the age at which adulthood likely starts in the current climate is
27.
528
:Now, what I will say is, to some extent for the Gen Zers and also Millennials, the current
economic climate does not make it easy for them.
529
:But there's a point, the point that they've made is even though that's the case, you still
have to have that personal responsibility to want to, again, not splurge on the avo, smash
530
:avo and whatever else.
531
:Traveling, traveling the and consistently doing this rather than tightening your belt and
having avos at home or whatever exotic things that people may want to have, which they
532
:normally would eat out for, which costs five times.
533
:what it would be if you buy at the supermarket or somewhere wholesale and take it home.
534
:Well, here's the problem if you don't, well, there's a number of things, but here's one of
the big problems if you don't take responsibility and make those changes.
535
:Let's talk about our responsibility as your elders now, right?
536
:We do have a responsibility to get the governments around the world to sort themselves out
when it comes to everything from immigration policy,
537
:red tape bureaucracy, things are adding unnecessary costs to housing.
538
:So, you know, that being able to free up land for development, that being able to put the
infrastructure and services in.
539
:So we have a responsibility to address those things, to ensure that you have an
opportunity to get onto the property ladder and it's affordable for you to raise a family.
540
:We agree that's, that's not in dispute.
541
:And anyone from Gen X and baby booms above that can't see that, you're a fucking idiot
because there are things that we've
542
:Got wrong and we need to take responsibility as adults and address this for the next
generation Now hypothetically speaking, let's say the magic wand appears and These things
543
:are addressed in 12 months time Well, if the Millennials and the Gen Z's haven't taken
their own responsibility when we address the others guess what's gonna happen if housing
544
:is now affordable for you and there's opportunities you're not you can't take it because
again your bank balance still says zero or
545
:for many of you negative.
546
:So you've got to be ready to take the opportunities when they come and they will come.
547
:The world's been at war before.
548
:The world has been tearing itself apart and it's been able to come back from that and
people build society.
549
:So the opportunity is just, it's somewhere it will come.
550
:it's, people during World War I and World War II lived far worse lives than things are
today.
551
:You know, I hear my,
552
:from my wife's parents in terms of what and in terms just to give that age group, they
were children, young children in World War II.
553
:So they remember, they were old enough to remember what it is, what was like at that time.
554
:it's really a huge...
555
:difference in terms of what quality of life was for them back then and what life is today.
556
:So it's something to think about and to be very clear that there has been worse in terms
of life over time in the past.
557
:And the world has improved, has gotten better.
558
:has had technology which has lifted
559
:a number of people out of poverty and advances in medicine and all sorts of things.
560
:So it can and will get better.
561
:Well, one of the critical things they have of us is that we haven't educated these
generations properly.
562
:Because when you say World War I and World War II, most of Gen C and Gen X couldn't tell
you the years.
563
:They couldn't tell you what it means.
564
:In all seriousness, there'd be people out there that thinks it was on a computer game with
drones and...
565
:Well, in fact, I'll give you an example, right?
566
:You might not be wrong.
567
:For those those listening that don't understand, I'll give you a direct example of how
rapidly things have changed and how good today's society really is.
568
:So I love Japan.
569
:I've traveled to Japan.
570
:And if I had enough money and time, I would go there every year for eight, 10 weeks.
571
:Love it.
572
:If my grandfathers were alive and they heard me say that
573
:They couldn't whack me around the head fast enough.
574
:why?
575
:Generational.
576
:Generational.
577
:Why is it generational?
578
:My two grandfathers were both in the Australian infantry forces that the Australians for
the most part fought in the Pacific theater, which is against the Japanese.
579
:So one of my grandfathers.
580
:And by the way, that's during World War II.
581
:This is World War II.
582
:So this is 1939 to 1945 for those that are listening.
583
:So both my grandfathers fought in that war.
584
:Now this is pre internet.
585
:There was no remote.
586
:This is the time where you were in the jungle with a 303 rifle.
587
:And you know, in the middle of the night, you didn't know where the Japanese soldiers were
coming from you, the sounds of the jungle, the humidity, because this was tropical.
588
:Some of the areas in the Pacific.
589
:This is like, you know, Malaya, the Malayan peninsula, Singapore, Borneo, Guadalcanal.
590
:Yep.
591
:So even yes, for the Americans is these the Philippines and Guam, Guadalcanal, things like
that.
592
:So one of my grandfathers, his brother was killed by the Japanese.
593
:So the Japanese would, they were brutal.
594
:They would execute soldiers by decapitating them.
595
:So we go from 1939 to 1945, this generation that in Australia gets sent off to fight this
war to protect Australia from invasion.
596
:And here I am, sort of 40 years after.
597
:It would be so when you were born that is yeah, so I'm I was born in 1974 So the the war
ends:
598
:It's still fresh in their minds.
599
:Yep.
600
:I traveled to Japan in 2019 So what do we list around that to?
601
:2945 55 75 years so within 75 years an Australian and many Australians love to travel
Japan They're wonderful people with wonderful food and and only three generations back
602
:We're at war with them and fighting them.
603
:if you actually had a better understanding of history and not some of the crap you get
today, because you're getting stuff that's either completely wrong or you're getting half
604
:the story, you're getting truth, but you're only getting half the story.
605
:Warped.
606
:So if you actually understood the history better and how people used to live, you'd see
what a great opportunity you have before you notwithstanding that we know there are things
607
:to work on.
608
:So for me,
609
:to think that, and many, many in Australia used to lie about their age, by the way, to go
to war.
610
:So in 1916, sorry, 1914 to 1918, the first world war and 1939 to 945, 16 year olds would
lie and say they're 18.
611
:Some younger at 15 or 14.
612
:And they knew they weren't that age, they needed the soldiers and they'd go to war.
613
:And, it's interesting.
614
:Some of the stories you hear off the, well, quite a number of them now.
615
:have died and not many left, who are now in their, who would be a hundred and something,
but know, of those who could have all did that time, but their stories, when you watched a
616
:lot of documentaries, et cetera, and of those guys being interviewed, and when they were
interviewed in their 90s or even their 80s, they would say that, you know, look, was, I
617
:just turned, you know,
618
:Just 15, just 16, and I lied about my age, but because I had a slight beard, they
obviously were allowed to go to war.
619
:And these guys actually were able to survive and effectively also then be able to, some of
course died, but some survived, and were able to tell the story.
620
:And it's just amazing to hear those stories.
621
:Well, this is one of the reasons why I actually a significant reason I think that we got
to where we're at, because I hypothesize that what we're seeing is dust to rust in three
622
:generations on a macro level.
623
:So the concept of dust to rust is someone builds a business.
624
:Their son sees how hard dad worked and builds it more, but doesn't want his son or
daughter.
625
:to do it as tough and by the time the third generation inherits the business, they've had
no hard work.
626
:They've not seen the blood, sweat and tears.
627
:All they've seen is the money flow and walk around calling themselves the boss and the
business goes broke.
628
:They squander it.
629
:Well, on a macro level, that's about where we're at in Western society where three
generations, nearly four generations passed and people don't have connections to these
630
:things.
631
:I'm not saying that you need to have a connection to a significant war for you to
understand what does be aware of?
632
:Correct.
633
:What I'm saying is have a healthy reference point because it doesn't have to be war,
right?
634
:It can be anything.
635
:You can have a healthy reference point if your neighbor has a very ill child and you
realize how lucky you are to be healthy.
636
:If you have a reference point that will start to or should and you keep that in mind
something healthy, it will ground you and
637
:you should be able to then realize the opportunities before you and whether or not your
life really is as bad as what you think it is.
638
:But if you're going to continue on and think that 30 is when you start adult, unless
you're going to be the greatest lawyer in the world, the greatest venture capitalist, like
639
:you're in that as Bernie would say, in the top 1 %!
640
:Which is probably, it's not even the top 1%, the top 0.1%.
641
:To crunch the numbers, the numbers won't work out.
642
:So to give you, let's go on some...
643
:average income.
644
:This is from world data in like 2022.
645
:Yeah, so 20.
646
:This data is from 2022.
647
:So there might be might be some adjustment.
648
:But to give you an idea of what we're talking about here, the average annual income across
the countries at that time, the US it says was $80,300.
649
:Australia, 63,140.
650
:Germany, 53,970.
651
:New Zealand, 48,610.
652
:UK, 47,800.
653
:So as you see from these numbers, if you start crunching those numbers saying, okay, I'm
making that average from the age of 30 until the age of 65, assuming all things.
654
:stay equal.
655
:So as these wages increase, inflation's only increasing the cost of your home, your food,
your electricity the same way.
656
:And you work those numbers out yourself and have a look how much money you'll make and
then see whether or not that is going to be enough to facilitate paying all those things I
657
:mentioned with raising family and then your retirement.
658
:And I think Dave, for another podcast, we'll try to get a...
659
:whether that's an investment officer or someone in that field just to be able to give some
pointers as to some of the things that can be done to help.
660
:To try and get them on the property ladder or get them out of home.
661
:Yeah, or share investment or whatever it is.
662
:But I'm a financial advisor.
663
:So that's something that we'll do for a podcast down the road.
664
:where that data out of the Forbes, sorry, the Fortune article, and where people are
talking about, you know, that they consider how they're defining adulthood as when they
665
:pay their own bills or when they're financially independent, when they leave home.
666
:Here's something else to think about.
667
:If your parents are still picking up the slack at that point in time, the answer is, the
question is why?
668
:Because if your parents love you and have educated you and have fed you and being good
parents, know, dad's not been an ass putting cigarette butts out of you.
669
:Mum's not a crack whore.
670
:You know, if you're from where most of us are from and your family feed you, clothe you,
house you, and you're getting to 20, 22 years of age, why do they not have a right to
671
:enjoy the fruits of their labor?
672
:Why do you keep taking money from
673
:what they've earned.
674
:And what I mean by that is not like parents should take the view, whatever arbitrary
number you pick that your children get to their adults and you just boot them in the ass
675
:and say too bad, so sad.
676
:But what I mean is a responsible child, you should be in a situation where you don't want
that from your parents.
677
:You love them.
678
:You realize you're old enough to look around you and realize what they gave you, what good
parents they've been.
679
:And you should be wanting them to go and take the cruise.
680
:You should be wanting them to go and have the trips and say, don't spend the money on me,
mum and dad.
681
:It's fine.
682
:One of the other problems that's arisen with this deferred adulthood too, is because the
financial realities hit home, you've got people that when they start adult and then five
683
:years in.
684
:let's use that three, that 30 as the starting point, 35, 36, reality starts to hit them in
the face that financially.
685
:They're not going to be able to turn it around.
686
:And then this starts to creep in, not, not with a lot of people, but with some this
waiting for the inheritance.
687
:And that is a really, I find that.
688
:Yeah, it is.
689
:That's quite something else.
690
:And it happens a lot more than we think.
691
:It does.
692
:I've literally had, I've heard people say to me, thanks to my mum and dad.
693
:I'm lucky because when they die, I think, wow, you're, you're waiting on someone's death
for your financial security.
694
:That that's very worrisome.
695
:To me, and I'm not saying again, parents, you know, if you want to leave something to your
kids, but you know what you should want from your mom and dad at death?
696
:Great memories.
697
:That's what you should want.
698
:You should want to have great memories of family life and what they did.
699
:There shouldn't be any.
700
:And here's another reason to explain why.
701
:Again, using these numbers, we're going to say, we've already established that it suggests
they'll live to a hundred or beyond, but we'll stick with the 90.
702
:So let's say your parents had you at 30, which is late for generations gone by, but we'll
still say stay at that point.
703
:That means when they die at 90, you're 60.
704
:So if it's 60, you're waiting for their inheritance.
705
:What the fuck have you done in 60 years of your life?
706
:That's a long time to wait as well.
707
:Well, it is a long time, but it's like, you're now like, what have you done with your life
at 60, waiting for a handout?
708
:Well, that's the thing, because at that point, what does somebody...
709
:What would somebody have done during their lives?
710
:Because if they're waiting on then which means they wouldn't have been able to travel do
much at all because they would have been dependent on as the example you gave waiting on
711
:the death of their parents.
712
:Actually, I don't think they've done nothing.
713
:I think that's a very full spectrum.
714
:I think you get, you get those that literally the parents die at 90 and
715
:And the guy has been living with his parents or all his life and his 60 and has done
nothing.
716
:I think that's a scenario I was looking at where living in with a parent for parents for
that long and having done essentially not much or nothing at all.
717
:And there's that, but I, in some ways I think that's the lesser of the two evils, even
though I think it's evil.
718
:I think the worst one is you've actually made good money and you've gone off and you've
traveled, you've partied and.
719
:and had an amazing time and relying upon someone else because you you spend 100 % of
income.
720
:didn't put 10 % away for any day or 15 % or whatever it may be.
721
:I think that's even worse.
722
:And I actually know of people that have been told stories that would just rock you.
723
:Like I've literally, I won't name the name or where I got the information from because
it...
724
:this particular person was involved in a very public criminal matter, worked in banking
and finance, but this guy was banking like a $5 million bonus type thing, bonus.
725
:And not one off, it wasn't like he came up with some new amazing derivative.
726
:And it was one off.
727
:This was basically sort of garden variety bonus.
728
:And in his 60s, he's got like $27 in the bank.
729
:because he, by his own admission, love snorting coke off big-titted hookers.
730
:And again, I'm a libertarian, right?
731
:I'm a libertarian.
732
:You do you, provided you're not hurting anyone else, you do you.
733
:But how do you get to the point at 60 odd years of age, at that sort of income, you got
nothing?
734
:Now, the reason why I have an issue with it is because in Australia, and this guy is
Australian, he's a handful of years away from accessing the pension, which means he's a
735
:handful of years away from putting his hand into our...
736
:money, our tax dollars that could have been used on our roads or better schools or sick
kids.
737
:And this guy's made more than enough money that he would have been able to comfortably
facilitate a lifestyle you dream of, but he's squandered it on lines of coke and sluts.
738
:That's like, well, there's there's flips out that though, Dave, that some people may think
of it, that he's also contributed to the taxation over the years.
739
:that kind of, I would imagine that he would have had been on.
740
:great salary so he would have been paying tax.
741
:that's it.
742
:And this will be a whole episode in itself because that's a very philosophical question of
what what is your tax right?
743
:So do you get a right to say I've contributed my tax dollars therefore I'm owed right
because and that should never be the situation.
744
:I don't think never the case because to me it's not withstanding I think most governments
around the world take our money and completely fuck it up.
745
:They waste it.
746
:right?
747
:They don't use it efficiently and effectively.
748
:However, your tax dollars is meant to be not withstanding say universal health care in
Australia that doesn't exist in the US, but it's meant to be for roads and for public
749
:schools and for health care and for national defense and, and the safety net of a pension,
right?
750
:Pension is meant to be a safety net for those in society that they're, they were limited
in their abilities, opportunities.
751
:access something's gone wrong along the journey, whatever it's meant to be a safety net to
say it's okay, you're one of us, we've got you.
752
:You're not going to be eating cat food and living on the street.
753
:You have access to a pension out of the public funds.
754
:It's not meant to be this concept of, no, no, no, I can make $10 million a year and I am
going to go to town, I am going to snort coke, I'm going to have all the girls I'm going
755
:to do whatever.
756
:And at 67, I'm your problem, you can then
757
:I'll dip in because I've paid.
758
:Now, that's somewhat so differently.
759
:I know people that take the view very much of I've paid, therefore I'm owed.
760
:I that's not the That's not how it should be, to take that kind of view because it...
761
:And even with the safety net of the...
762
:which exists in a few countries, it still doesn't...
763
:isn't a comfortable living.
764
:because all it is is a safety net.
765
:doesn't, you won't be able to live a great quality of life to, again, if you want to
travel overseas, you want to do all the other things that you would have done having
766
:invested properly throughout your working life, you won't be able to do that, do those
things.
767
:For the most part in Australia, if you own your home at retirement, you'll live
comfortably.
768
:You won't struggle.
769
:If you...
770
:plan well, you can have some sort of trips, but a lot of our people, 65, 67 to say 70, 72,
that first five years, a lot of them tend to work one or two days to top up because you're
771
:allowed to make a certain amount of money before it impacts your, your pension.
772
:but these are all the things that getting back to the, when you start adulting, these are
the things that you need to think about because the end of the day, all of us have
773
:you know, multiple iterations of ourselves that are constantly evolving needs,
opportunities.
774
:That's true.
775
:Once.
776
:So at 30, while you still think, yeah, you're young, believe me, you need to think of the
40 year old you and the 50 year old you, the 60 year old you.
777
:And then you need to think of your children and you need to think of your partner and, and
all these things.
778
:Now, the next thing too, is if you do that and you have a good time and you're deferring
adulthood, it's actually going to put more pressure on your family.
779
:Because again, instead of saying, you know what, up until I was 24, I partied on, had the
time of my life, but then I got stuck in and therefore only owe for a figure $300,000
780
:rather than $500,000.
781
:Well, $200,000 difference, the current interest rates in Australia at 6%, that's $12,000
just in interest without the principal, which is roughly $250 a week.
782
:If you had a family, you've got $250 a week.
783
:more to feed them, clothe them.
784
:So you're seeing when I use some simple numbers about how this future you has far less
pressure, far less stress for just calming down a bit that you're not, you're not a child
785
:at 30 and not having the avo every week.
786
:I'll tell them, I'll tell them the cafe.
787
:But again, I'm not, I'm not saying to people, you know, I want to legislate the way in
which they live their lives.
788
:Yeah.
789
:Cause the, you know,
790
:We're all about freedom of choice and freedom of living.
791
:So it's, yeah.
792
:So that's not what's being said here.
793
:My choices.
794
:I don't want my, I don't want to pay unnecessary taxes because you are irresponsible.
795
:That's what it will abound to.
796
:Well, when you have, and he's, here's something that I think is why the massive stumbling
blocks to the U S and universal health care to me, you know, I've mentioned it before.
797
:I'm happy, notwithstanding all the other variable things that we do that the three
798
:pillars of our society that our taxes fund, public education, public healthcare, and I'd
like public transport.
799
:So those things are fine, but within that, and particularly using something like
healthcare, there's an inherent social contract.
800
:So what that means is, as Australians, because we accept that we're contributing our tax
dollars so that you have access to healthcare for free or minimal cost, that you will...
801
:to a certain degree be responsible in how you treat yourself.
802
:So you won't overeat to obesity.
803
:You you shouldn't be smoking yourself to death.
804
:You won't over drink.
805
:Now this is not saying you're a stain because we're not asking you to live like a monk.
806
:What we're saying is as part of that, you try your best to manage your health, to manage
these things.
807
:And we have this safety net, which just on another note, saw a hilarious thing the other
day on Instagram that said someone had put,
808
:someone used the word obese and this obese person that wrote, you can't say that obese is
the N word for fat people.
809
:And the response someone said, bigger, please.
810
:So yeah, so there is a, there is a social contract, a social contract when you, when you
do those things.
811
:And to be honest, to me, Gen Z and the millennials, the ones that
812
:that are in this category and as we've mentioned before, there are those out there with
second jobs, third jobs, getting into it early, but you're breaking the social contract.
813
:And that's a key thing here that as Dave made the point there, this is not saying all Gen
Zs and all in terms of millennials fall into the category or this is an issue.
814
:It is just pointing out that there is a, that the statistics are showing and
815
:based on the article that we looked at earlier, it is showing that this is, or if it's not
somehow mitigated, is going to be a big, big problem.
816
:And we're talking about in not even just only by 60, we're about between now, we're
talking about people in their 20s going all the way to 60.
817
:That journey may not be as, let's say,
818
:as wonderful as your parents had it.
819
:Well, it's forcing people to start making choices that have outsizing impacts as well.
820
:Cause you see young couples saying, we're not going to have kids.
821
:Yeah.
822
:Great.
823
:I do believe in again, everyone has a choice.
824
:you know, and I can say that you are much better off not having children than having
children.
825
:If for example, you don't have maternal or paternal instincts, if it's not in you, because
that that's the worst of all.
826
:family situations is kids know when their parents really, you know, they really didn't
want them.
827
:They resent them, you know, feel like they've, they've interrupted the life.
828
:So if you don't want kids, no worries, don't have kids.
829
:But if you're part of this burgeoning clique in society that says, I'm not going to have
kids.
830
:I'm going to travel the world and have a good time.
831
:can tell you with someone that, didn't have family.
832
:Like in terms of me having my own children and things like that until later in life with
my current partner, the life I have now compared to when I traveled the world at the front
833
:of planes and going to Formula One races and seeing the world, it's not even close.
834
:It's not fulfillment.
835
:Those things, every time you have that trip, every time you have that dinner, you purchase
those things, they're a sugar hit.
836
:They're a life sugar hit.
837
:Yeah, they're fun.
838
:I'm not saying they're not fun.
839
:But it's a bit like if you don't eat properly, you don't have a consistent diet, your
blood sugar doesn't stay stable and you don't stay at a healthy weight and you don't have
840
:energy.
841
:That's the same thing that if you need the next trip, if you need the next purchase, the
next iPhone, the next beer close, you get a sugar hit and then it wears off and that item
842
:too is old and new.
843
:And then you've got to go do it again.
844
:You're not getting truly fulfilled.
845
:We're having your family.
846
:You could have the worst day in the world.
847
:You could be under pressure.
848
:And when you get home and your little one runs out to see you or, or your kids are having
a bit of a tough day and they just want to hug you.
849
:All those things are far better fundamentals of life.
850
:Yeah.
851
:And, and if we're, if you're putting yourself under that pressure, you're either saying we
won't have any cause we can't afford it or we'll only have one or whatever that may be.
852
:Again, that, that has other impacts.
853
:So let's use, let's use the zero and the ones as an example.
854
:So you love your husband, your wife.
855
:The two of you decide not to have kids.
856
:You go and have a hit Cancun every year.
857
:You go to Bali every year, wherever it is that you'd like to go.
858
:And you're having a good time.
859
:And then you hit 70 and your partner dies and you're not well.
860
:You start having health problems.
861
:Who are you relying upon?
862
:So that's number one.
863
:So you've got no one.
864
:So that's the first thing.
865
:And I can tell you, if you don't believe me, go to nursing homes or go to
866
:talk to nurses that work in things like palliative care and whatnot, and ask them what the
saddest part of their job is.
867
:And they'll tell you it's the people that have no one.
868
:No one comes to see them.
869
:They sit there just staring out the window all day or whatever it may be.
870
:Now that's probably at least the better, again, the lesser of the two evils because you're
the one suffering for the decisions you made.
871
:If you have one child and they then turn around and have their own family,
872
:And they don't have brothers and sisters that in that same scenario can help with some of
the load to look after mom and dad.
873
:And again, if you've been a good parent, they will want to, right?
874
:It's not a burden.
875
:They will want you to be comfortable and see.
876
:In most cases, but you do have the anomalies.
877
:Of course you do.
878
:But if you're doing parenting right, you your kids, when you start to have some issues and
you start to suffer.
879
:You start to suffer and you have all sorts of issues around.
880
:You've got one child that will turn around and have to come and see you or might have to
see your partner as well that could be ill.
881
:And then they're turning around trying to race back to get their kids from school and
raise their own families.
882
:All these sorts of things are just far more pressure that they're going to have.
883
:And it's making their life sort of
884
:not, not worse per se, cause it's wrong and bad word, but again, as a parent, is that what
you want to leave behind for your kid?
885
:Did you want to get to the stage where you're a septuagenarian octogenarian and instead of
being able to put your head on the pillow and think, wow, yeah, John and Jane, they're a
886
:great life.
887
:This family's good.
888
:We don't have anything to worry about that.
889
:You're going to your grave, watching them under extreme pressure.
890
:Look, there's the flip side to that as well, because you do have in some instances, kids
who, you know, will not.
891
:take care of their parents.
892
:You do have the flip side to that where there are kids who will not take care of their
parents when they're older.
893
:So that does happen.
894
:But given normalcy of life and situation, what you do say is likely the outcome that
you'll have kids and support from them when you get older.
895
:and this is not an indictment against whether somebody has one child or no child.
896
:It's again,
897
:It's all about you enjoying your life and doing what you think is good for you.
898
:And again, there have been various people who have had adopted children, even not even an
adopted child or children, but they have other significant people within their lives who
899
:do have, when they do get older, those persons also become significant to their lives.
900
:So it's not, so what we're saying here, we're not necessarily saying, you know, everyone
who has one or no children that this is what's going to happen.
901
:There is always...
902
:It can be, but the, again, we're talking about, you know, without needing statistics, you
know, know enough people with what I've done for work and everyone I know enough and
903
:spoken to enough nurses, doctors.
904
:It's very, it's very rare.
905
:It's very rare for people without kids or people that haven't been a good parent to really
have someone at that point that's, that's going above and beyond.
906
:It becomes any, and if, people don't believe me, take, take your spare time and go down to
your local hospital, go down to your local hospice, you know, and go and visit, go to the
907
:local nursing home and ask them and find out what happens.
908
:Now, again, this is not my argument to say that the woman out there that's career driven.
909
:and it's not maternalistic is doing the wrong thing.
910
:What we're talking about is in the scenario that on average, you're the sort of person
that wants to build a healthy, happy life, which includes family.
911
:If you don't adult until 30, you're putting yourself, your partner and your future family
already on the back foot because it is a.
912
:very, very late starting point.
913
:You're starting the hundred meters sort of five seconds after everyone else has left the
blocks.
914
:Well, that's going to be even another podcast about having children later in life.
915
:But as we say, Dave, we always have a right to be wrong.
916
:And I'm sure there'll be lots of people out there who will want to prove you or to have
comments to to indicate about what you've said or to counteract what you've said.
917
:So it's going to be interesting, but make sure to hit us up.
918
:on the socials because you're always any shape or any form and always, you always have the
right to be wrong.
919
:Thanks for listening.
